Transcript of: Voice of the Cape Radio Why We Are White Refugees Interview; 14 September 2009

On 14 September 2009, I was interviewed by Voice of the Cape Radio, Mr. Rafiq Morton; allegedly regarding the Why We Are White Refugees petition.

The interview lasted about 13 minutes. Unfortunately I could only record my answers; however, in the transcript below, I paraphrased Mr. Morton's questions from memory. However just in case my memory is not accurately reflecting his questions, I have written him an email to provide him the opportunity to make corrections.

Email to Mr. Rafiq Morton, Drivetime Radio Show, Voice of the Cape Radio; follows with the transcript of Why We Are White Refugees, interview held on 14 September 2009

Mr. Shafiq Morton
Drivetime Radio Show
Voice of the Cape Radio

c/o Dorianne Arendse
Voice of the Cape Radio Station
Producer/Journalist [www.vocfm.co.za]
Tel: (021) 442 3500


Mr. Morton,

Re: 14 September 2009, Why We Are White Refugees Petitition Interview

I noticed that the interview has not been made publicly available by Voice of the Cape Radio, on your podcasts. Alternatively, I doubt you record all interviews. If you did record it, I would appreciate it if you could provide me with a copy of it.

I did make an audio copy, but unfortunately it only contains my answers. I am making it publicly available, with a paraphrased transcript of your questions, for anyone interested in listening to it. However, of course it is paraphrased from my memory of your questions, so please clarify where my paraphrased memory of your questions could be made more accurate, if so required.

I would also like to take this opportunity to provide you with some additional information, regarding the issues we discussed in the interview:

1. Re: your statement about the 133 (actually 142) academics who wrote an Open Letter to the Canadian Charge D'Affaires, strongly distancing themselves from Huntley's views.
   
   Are you aware of Politicswebs article, Did 142 Academics Get It Wrong on Crime?
   
   
2. Re: Your views that 'nigger' or 'kaffir' is always considered an insult, and is never said without the intenton to insult.
   
   Are you aware of the following recordings made by President Barrack Obama, regarding brutally frank friendly banter conversations held between him and friends, where the word 'nigger' was hardly meant offensively; to the contrary:
   
   “Sorry Assed Motherfucka's Got nothing On Me. Nothing! Right?” (FLV:33K)
   
   “And there are White Folks, and there are Ignorant Motherfucka's Like You!” (FLV.21K)
   
   “You aint my Bitch, Nigga! Buy Your own Damn Fries!” (FLV:18K)

Herewith my recollection of your statements and questions.

Voice of the Cape Radio Interview, with Shafiq Morton: 13:15 minutes (FLV file:5MB)

September 14, 16:30 hrs

[Morton] [00:00] Two weeks ago, 133 of South Africa's top academics signed an Open Letter to the Canadian Goverment, where they strongly distances themselves from Brandon Huntley's views, as per his application to the Canadian Goverment for White Refugee status. Most South Africans probably feel the same way; but not all.

We have with us today, Lara Huntley; who describes herself as a founding blogger, for one of the Why We Are White Refugee coalition blogs: Cape Republic of Good Hope; who support Huntley's views. Welcome Lara Huntley.

[Lara] [00:12] Just to clarify; I am not Lara Huntley. I am Lara Johnstone...

[Morton] [00:13] Sorry, i made a mistake

[Lara] [00:15] No, thats okay...

[Morton] [00:19] So, Lara, do you think that all white South Africans who are upset about crime, should apply to the Canadian Goverment for Refugee status?

[Lara] [00:31] Well I wouldn't say they have to. But certainly Huntley raises issues about the violation of the Social Contract; about how the goverment is not protecting people; and particularly whites feel they are not protected. Maybe certain friends of his in Mowbray don't feel unprotected, but allot of people do feel unprotected. Over 3,000 white farmers have been murdered and tortured and if you lodge a complaint, with the police, it just disappears, it goes nowhere. I've lodged complaints. So it is about issues he raises in his complaint, that are about the breakdown of the social contract. South Africa is number one in the world in rapes, and number one in the world in murders.

[Morton] [01:15] But isn't everyone in South Africa affected by crime? Arn't blacks more affected by crime, than whites? Why does your petition have to be a white refugee petition? Why isn't it in support of all South Africans?

[Lara] [01:23] If there is pressure on the South African Goverment, to do something about crime, to improve the social contract, then everyone benefits. Blacks continue to say that whites must not speak for them. Now my former husband is black, and I am concerned about crime in black neighbourhoods for blacks, as well. But I don't profess to speak for them. I can say, yes I am concerned about it, and if some of them contact me, and say 'sign this petition', I'll say 'sure, let me know where it is and whatever'. But when I have attempted to speak on behalf of blacks, and I have on certain issues that I was concerned about for them. I am sometimes, or quite often told 'You are not black, so don't speak for us." So, I hear that, and No Problem. Uhm but...

[Morton] [02:12] But why does this have to be about race?

[Lara] [02:13] Because we are black and white. Because lets not deny where we come from. We have different cultures, and we can recognize and respect each others differences; but we don't all have to be the same. Thats what individuality is, thats what multiculturalism is; appreciating that people have different cultures.

[Morton] [02:30] But isn't that separating us all into tribes; isn't that very very patronising, saying we are all different tribes?

[Lara] [02:40] Well I think thats... Tell that to a Xhosa South African or a Zulu South African; and boy will they say 'No Brother. We are in our different tribes.' And we can enjoy that like a rainbow. We don't have to make everybody paleface or grey. The differences are there to be enjoyed ad to be appreciated. I don't know why we have to force people to all be the same. Why can't we acknowledge people from different cultures and support each other?

[Morton] [03:19] [Can't recall the question, something about tribes]

[Lara] [03:27] Clarify the question please

[Morton] [03:28] It's offensive.

[Lara] [03:32] Well I guess thats your interpretation. I had a roomate, not at the moment, but in my previous flat, and he was Venda. And that is how he wanted to be spoken to. He said that 'We are tribes. We are from different tribes, and I am proud to be from the Venda tribe.' And I said 'Is that how you prefer me to', and he said 'Yeah..' There was no offence taken if I said 'You are from the Venda tribe'. He did not take offence from that at all. So maybe some do, and if that is the case, then I am sorry, but that was my conversation with my flatmate.

[Morton] [05:03] So Huntley felt unprotected?

[Lara] [05:03] Well I certainly have felt unprotected, and I dn't think the goverment gives two hoots about protecting white people; particularly white people who voice a bit of a complaint. I think if you crawl up, if you are a sycophant, and you don't criticize the goverment in any way; then perhaps you will get yourself listened to; but if you demand the princples that the constitution provides for everybody; and that the goverment should be criticized where it is making big messes; then you don't get no protection brother. In fact, you've got policemen at your front door, to shut you up. And that is not what the social contract is about. Thats not a goverment..

[Morton] [05:03] Policemen at your front door?

[Lara] [05:04] I was told by one policeman, yes, I was being arrested because I had too big a mouth. My complaints about the violations of the social contract were not appreciated. I'll give you his name, the policeman's name.

[Morton] [05:24] No we canot deal with that now on the radio.

[Lara] [05:26] No, it was just to say. Brandon's been accused that he did not file complaints, and stuff like that. And I have filed complaints and they go nowhere. Maybe they are just sitting in an office somewhere. The certainly arn't investigated. And thats not just with the police, so I wouldn't just hold it against the police. You can file a complaint with the Public Protectors Unit. You can file complaints with any of the civil service complaints units, with the Ombudsman's units. And you don't go far.

[Morton] [06:03] So, would you rather be living in the South Africa of 2009, or the South Africa of 1969?

[Lara] [06:05] I'll tell you what, I did allot of work in prisons; and I was astounded. Allot of black people told me, "you know what, things were better for us under apartheid, because we had jobs, we didn't have six million people from Africa here taking our jobs." We had..

[Morton] [06:25] Six million immigrants?

[Lara] [06:26] That was from a police report that..

[Morton] [06:27] That number is inaccurate and exaggerated. That number has been proven to be inaccurate by numerous journalists.

[Lara] [06:36] Well, thats possible, we can investigate that number... but certainly the reality for people, in terms of ... Hello?

[Morton] [06:45] But now, don't you see how using inaccurate statistics creates a lot of division. This creates a climate for the xenophobic attacks on foreigners last year; when people get the incorrect facts about how many immigrants there are in South Africa.

[Lara] [07:06] Well, I can only tell you what people told me; that they were better off under apartheid. That they had jobs; that the goverment may not have been the nicest goverment, but the goverment wasn't letting in the rest of Africa, to take their jobs. If they went to the Dept. of HOme Affairs for a passbook, they could get it.They didn't have to commit suicide to be on the front pages of the Sunday Newspaper.

[Morton] [07:29] Commit suicide to be on the front page of the paper?

[Lara] [07:31] The poor gentleman from Durban, who couldn't even get a pass book, from his own Home Affairs Office.

[Morton] [07:39] An I.D. Book

[Lara] [07:39] Yes, his Identity document, so I can only tell you what people told me. Now certainly not everyone feels that way, I certainly agree. But people who are disgruntled, do not get their voices heard. They get called a racist, or they get called names, without a conversation occuring, as to do they have justified complaints.

[Morton] [08:03] [If I recall correctly, Mr. Morton asked if I was aware of President Zuma's new crime hotline and whether I had used it to lodge a complaint.]

[Lara] [08:12] Me. No, not Personally.

[Morton] [08:12] Okay, so what are your complaints?

[Lara] [08:22] I am.... Okay. In 1994, I was elated with Truth and Reconciliation, blah, blah blah.... I filed my submission for Reconciliation with the Truth Commission. I even donated my future inheritance to the TRC. I was so committed to a new South Africa; this was the level of my commitment. I donated my future inheritance to the TRC, to say, I'll put my money, where my mouth is. So, then I travelled some, I was overseas at that point. Then Nelson Mandela said that whites must come back, because 'we need your skills'. So, fine some of us believe this, and some of us do come back, and we want to make our contribution. I did allot of work on rehabilitaiton issues in America. I worked with the most famous rehabilitation program in America, the Delancey Street Foundation. So you come back and you want to do stuff; and you get told 'hey, youre white', or you know. There is not a commitment of lets work together. It's talk. But lets not discuss the nitty gritty's, lets not discuss the causes. Its about being politically correct and walking on egg shells, and we all pretend. So I have come to the conclusion that Truth and Reconciliation was a farce. It was a joke. It was a dog and pony show to convince the masses, and allot of people are waking up to that reality, and it is not a pleasant reality to confront.

[Morton] [10:05] Now, your official spokesperson is a man named Mike Smith, from a blog called SA Sucks. Now I had a look at his blog posts, and he uses the words 'kaffir' and 'nigger' and 'coon'. Thats racist.

[Lara] [10:33] Well, at the time... Different people mean different things with the word racist; so what do you mean? Cause satire is different

[Morton] [10:43] Kaffir and coon is not racist?

[Lara] [10:51] Well, I'll tell you what. When I lived in Oakland, I was the only white person living in the Oakland ghetto. I was just one white woman, and all round me were black people. And they couldn't understand what I was doing there. So they said to me, one day 'What you white bitch doing here?' So I laughed and said 'Hey, is that like saying 'hello'? And he was like 'Yeah, whats a white bitch doing around here amongst us niggers?' I said is that what you want me to call you. He said 'yes, I am a nigga'. There is a reclamation of the word 'nigger' that is an affectionate term. I mean Sandile Memela has written here in the Mail and Guardian, the intention ofthe word is not always offensive. Because you take the word as meaning its offensive, does not mean the person who said it was intentionally meaning it offensively. The word 'nigger' has many different meanings to different people.

[Morton] [11:52] Nigger or Kaffir does not mean anything affection to anyone.

[Lara] [11:53] It does, in black culture, many people use the word nigger as a term of endearment. Barrack Obama uses the term affectionately. I can play you a tape right now, where he uses the term, saying affectioantely 'Hey Nigga, your not my bitch'. Because there is a much more open and honest conversation in some areas of America, than there is in South Africa. We are overly politically correct; we are obsessed with trying to be nice to each other; and then behinds each others backs we are two faced. And I won't do that. I have black friends and I appreciate them for telling me to my face what they think of me.

[Morton] [12:33] So you have a petition?

[Lara] [12:34] Yes we have a petition, to be submitted to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, Mr. Jason Kenney, that should they proceed with their Application for Review, it be submitted as well, in terms of the information and the numbers of people.

[Morton] [12:55] Well, that was Lara Johnstone, of Why We Are White Refugees.

[Lara] [13:05] Thank you, Bye.

Please be so kind as to let me know, where my memory may not have paraphrased your questions accurately.

Thanks for the interview.

Respectfully,

Lara Johnstone
Cape Rep. of Good Hope
Why We Are White Refugees

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