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16 comments:
This is a brilliant piece; deeply personal and highly relevant. Thank you for sharing it.
Hi VI,
Thanks, well not quite sure about the brilliant, took long time scanning those pics! ;-) But thanks for the sentiment, yes I think its time we get 'beyond the Anglo-Boer war'... cause in the absence htereof.. we be doing a lemming suicide dive..
Interesting..
I am also of the lowland Johnstone clan too.
Very interesting... Wow! Hi Clansman! ;-)
To be honest, I did not completely understand the whole article, but as for your experience of Orania, allow me to state now, just because an idea is noble and worth supporting does not always mean that the people are. People are idiots and you will find many in Orania and everywhere else.
One day we will have a volkstaat that is modeled on Switzerland in Cantons and Language. The utter importance of Afrikaans must never be underrepresented mainly because of the fact that English is the bosom friend of liberalism. So learn Afrikaans properly. It is not difficult. And if you speak it with a strong accent, so what! At least you speak it.
Hi Martinus,
Not sure what you did not understand. But if you say, I can try to explain.
Just for the record. I don't have a negative feeling towards Orania at all! Most of the time i spent in Orania I enjoyed very much. Really interesting people. Nowhere is perfect.
And as you say, and I agree: just because an idea is noble and worth supporting does not always mean that the people are.
Agreed, including myself sometimes! ;-): People are idiots and you will find many in Orania and everywhere else.
Look forward to the swiss cantons volkstaat -- that truly would be a good way to go about it and is a good idea.
Disagree, but happy to agree to disagree, about the 'utter importance of afrikaans'. perhaps the only english people you have met have been liberals, but I have met many english people, that can teach many afrikaners allot about conservatism, constituionalism, fighting for a constitutional republic, etc.
In my view it is not the language a person speaks, but their atachment to values of integrity, honour, rule of law. With those values, I don't care if you speak Ruskie!
YOu need to do a bit more educating of yourself, with english people who are anything but liberals: who are in fact leading the fight way ahead of 'afrikaners' on conservative issues. See American Rennaissance, British National Party, Geert Wilders, etc. They know the value of english as an international language of communication.
Having said so: I ain't got a problem with speaking afrikaans at all; but its pointless peaking a language to communicate an idea to a large number of pepole, who don't understand your language. Then you may as well shut up, cause nobody understands what you are saying! ;-)
my 2 cents!
Thanks for your reply Andrea. I am hardly unacquainted with English people my parents are Rhodesian and I can move fluidly between both languages (English and Afrikaans), so much so that, much to my chagrin, I am often mistaken for (UK) English when I do speak it. I have also spent may years in the UK, Germany, Netherlands and now I live in Switzerland.
I have a lot of respect for conservative English speaking South Africans and would love for them to join our cause, as a great deal already have.
My issue with Afrikaans is that it is a language of identity. It does not matter whether or not foreigners can understand us, the Swiss hardly care about that and take pride in speaking Schweiz Deutsch and doing business in it, almost un-understandably. As do the Schwabisch (southern Germany). If people are interested in our ideals, then they will take the time to understand us - I have met an American, an Italian, a few actual Englishmen (UK) that have taken the time to learn Afrikaans. The dutch and belgians already understand us, it is only when we take our cause to the next level that we should speak English, or better yet - German.
I know all about the BNP, Amren and the rest. But when it comes to the BNP I disagree. They have a noble cause and a good platform, but frankly put, I cannot respect Nick Griffin after his BBC interview. He was blatantly ingratiating to the american black woman next to him who kept bashing his ideas, he vacillated on his points and only took a firm stand once the show was over when he called the BBC the red tool. Enough of that. These people that care about our cause are always able to read our stuff in English, and as I said, even if they can't, in the BNP, Arthur Kemp can surely translate for them, and old Geert understands already.
Finally, Afrikaans will be the primary language of the Volkstaat, as it should be. But of course there will be a place for English-speakers and even for our German-speaking cousins in South-West, all 70 000 of them. I want to see our state as the legitimate home of all white Africans from the Afrikaners and English speakers in Kenya, Congo, Zambia, Botswana, Namibia and especially Zimbabwe and South Africa.
Martinus
I agree with you on Nick Griffin.
Will you be happy with both a Volkstaat and an independent Western Cape, or do you see them as at odds?
I am quite looking forward to learning more Afrikaans.
Viking, I see the Volkstaat and the Cape as one and the same. Unfortunately there are small parts of the Cape that we will have to give up. If you are thinking of the Cape Party, well I suppose they cannot do harm, but their idea of multiculturalism I am against. It has not worked thus far and will not work in the future either. Also the number of blacks living in the Cape Metropol is something that we will have to deal with with exclusionary tactics, they are immigrants and should be treated as such. I myself am from the Cape so it is somewhere I definitely see as part of our future home. In the next few years I plan on starting a co-operative farm in Tulbagh in the Boland and hopefully expanding upwards. The only thing we need in money, so the quicker we get a lot together, the sooner we will be independent.
Martinus,
Thanks for explanation.
My issue with Afrikaans is that it is a language of identity.
Fair enough for you. Not for me. My mothers family is afrikaans, I grew up in Volksrust, but I consider myself a Boer, not an Afrikaner. In my view there are many differences between boers and Afrikaners.. and when someone says their idenitity is 'afrikaner' then I act carefully around them... because many afrikaners I met, are FW de Klerk etc traitors! Liars and frauds... so they are welcoem to their identity.. but I first check what kind of 'afrikaner' they are...
You now seem to have changed your mind. In the first post you said those who speak english are liberals; and thats why people need to speak afrikaans, cause anyone who is english is a liberal. Now what are you saying? Someone has to speak afrikaans to understand you? HUH???
Sounds very arrogant to me! But if that is your demand of what you think people need to do.. cause you are some special group of people, that can only be understood in the afrikaans language, no other... then thats your choice. Is that what you are saying?
As for your final paragraph? Are you teh president of this volkstaat? Will you put your statement in writing for legal purposes? If not, why not? Becuase some other Afrikaner could come along and change his mind? And say voertsek?
Now that's why I like a Boer.. cause with a Boer.. his word is his word and he doesn't make promises that he cannot keep...
NO disrespect, but I can speak afrikaans fine.. but I will never consider myself an 'afrikaner'! Never! If you are going to setup a boer constitutional republic.. I will fight to get in..
If you are going to setup an afrikaner taliban autocracy.. you are welcome to it..
Andrea, quickly, remove your feet from the stirrups and slowly dismount your high horse :). I never said those who speak English are liberal, because that would include me, or have I been speaking German all this time? I said "English is the bosom friend of liberalism" the language. This is something difficult to deny. I have spent much time in the non-English speaking world, places where influences like the American and British media are limited and I can guarantee you that they are on a completely different wavelength to those who are exposed to everything from the BBC to CNN and Hollywood. Is it any wonder that everyone in the Netherlands speaks English fluently? Anyway, my point was that because English is so universal it is used as a medium for propaganda, something that I do not agree with. Besides, ask yourself honestly, do you have any allegiance to the actual language itself? If so , fine. But why?
As for the Afrikaner/Boer issue. This is possibly one of the most divisive issues amongst right-thinking Afrikaners and I cannot entertain it. We will only survive with unity and cordoning off a section of our ethnic group under a different name because of the actions of a few is of no benefit to anyone.
By language of identity I meant, Afrikaners speak Afrikaans, Spanish speak spanish, the English speak English etc, its the way it is, and those of us that speak English are still the exception.
As for being an autocrat, did I not spend a whole paragraph praising Switzerland and their cantonal democracy?
And finally, no I am no president or anything else, but I am closely acquainted with many in the FF+ and other Afrikaner organisations, the people who will provide a legitimate face to the Volkstaat, and I can only reflect what I've been told.
If I can offer some advice, don't be so quick to respond with a sharp tongue, you do our cause more harm than good if you try to shoot someone (clearly on your side) out of the sky.
Martinus,
The alleged focus of the use of language is communication. If one person incorrect interprets anothers statement, then there is no communication occuring on that issue.
You are responsible for your incorrect interpretations of what I said; I am responsible for my incorrect interpretations of what you said.
You appear to have made final interpretations of what I said, without asking one question! But you want people to learn to speak afrikaans to understand you. yet you think you can understand another whithout asking one question??
I have not made any final conclusions about anything you said; I am still asking you questions; I am still determinging whether my interpretations of what you are saying is correct.
This is easier to do when you meet, what I call a boer, who calls a spade a fucking shovel; than it is when you meet a (what I call) afrikaner, who calls a spade, whatever he feels like, on a different day.
I don;t know what you mean by By language of identity I meant, Afrikaners speak Afrikaans, Spanish speak spanish, the English speak English etc, its the way it is, and those of us that speak English are still the exception.
Speaking english has sweet nothing to do with my 'identity'. My personal values are my identity; my values of honour, integrity, honesty, rule of law, etc. English is simply a tool. It is not my identity. My values are.
So, perhaps I have different ways of creating my personal identity, than people who choose to consider their language their identity?
As for autocrat, where did I say you were one? But your choice to interpret: [A] If you are going to setup a boer constitutional republic.. I will fight to get in.. If you are going to setup an afrikaner taliban autocracy.. you are welcome to it..
to mean that I said [B] You, Martinus are an autocrat is interesting. How did you get from [A] to [B]?
If I think you are an autocrat, I will say so in very fucking clear language. I spent a year in a prison for calling a prosecutor a "black kaffir bitch". I ain't got a problem telling you exactly what I think of you; but right now I don't know you from a bar of soap; so don't have any conclusions, except for the following one:
It appears that you don't take responsibility for how you are responsible for -- in your mind -- reading [A] and deciding it is [B]. Why do you do that? Why do you read [A] and interpret it as [B]?
Secondly...
As for your opinion that "English is the bosom friend of liberalism" the language.
I don't agree. I would certainly agree that there are many who speak english who are ardent liberals, as there are who are ardent conservatives, etc.
English to me is a tool. Just like a spade is a tool to dig a hole.
English is like a swiss pocket knife when it comes to communicating with a large number of people.
If I chose to only use the tool of a screwdriver (for example russian), then i would find, that my screwdriver only worked for screws, I could not use it for the multitude means I could use my (english) swiss pocket knife.
To me language is purely a tool of communication, nothing more.
For otehrs it may be their identity; and accordingly if so, it would be easier to understand that they may think that for everyone 'language is an identity'; but that would be an incorrect belief. They would be projecting their means of creating identity on everyone else, without first enquiring whether their belief is accurate.
I don't disagree that english is used by liberals, as it is by conservatives, anarchists, communists, and constitutionalists. Same with most other languages.
But provide more evidence for your argument, and you may convince me, but you have not done so yet.
"But provide more evidence for your argument, and you may convince me, but you have not done so yet."
This is your misunderstanding. I was not arguing, we were merely discussing. Take the aggression down to at least a quiet rage.
English is certainly a tool, and as you say, a useful one. But many people's identity is locked up in their language, mine is not, but I am an exception. I speak four languages fluently, English being one of them. My issue is this, and I'll state it categorically so as to reduce the amount of lash you are likely to deal out. Afrikaans needs to be the primary language of any self-determination effort that we decide to bring. Mainly because the attack on Afrikaans by the gubermunt is one of the reasons that most whites in South Africa support self-determination. Also I do not want to spend my life fighting tooth and nail for an independent country only to have it reduced to a liberal cesspool in two generations because of exposure to the American and British media. Afrikaans will create a buffer to limit the amount of influence that outside forces can have over us, our people and our decisions. Today people are heavily influenced by the media, so much so that in the UK, very few are able/willing to think for themselves. I do not want this for our future country and so we need to limit English. I'm sorry if this is offensive to you, but I call a spade a spade too.
Just some more advice, stop being so damn aggressive. I'm not fighting you! Lets discuss these things without resorting to anger.
The definition of 'argument' is among others as follows:
ar·gu·ment (ärgy-mnt) n.
1.
[a]. A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate.
b. A quarrel; a dispute.
c. Archaic A reason or matter for dispute or contention:
2.
a. A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood.
b. A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason:
c. A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.
Is it fair to say, you chose to interpret that I used the word argument to define [1b], and if so, why did you choose that definition, when it is quite possible (and in fact true) i meant and of [2 a - c]?
So,... somewhere along the line.. you interpreted some words as 'aggression'... Not sure which ones, and how you got there.. but you -- in your mind -- got htere!
The only thing I interpret as 'aggression' is physical aggression, someone standing infront of me with thier fist raised and two inches from my nose.
And once a Special Forces friend actually did do that.. and said he was going to fucking kill me. My response was "Stop fucking around with your fucking threats and do it" He started laughing hysterically and we went and had a coffee!
So... I don't know if you are just one of those kinds of people who expect someone to walk around on egg shells around you...cause you have a fragile ego or what... but ain't any aggression in me..
Once I was assaulted by a gang woman in prison, she hit me in the face with her fist, while calling me a FOKKEN AWB WHORE MEID; I just looked at her and smiled, and said "You done now, or you going to do that again?"
So, what did I say that you interpreted as 'aggression'? I am sitting here with a fat smile on my face...
You may speak english fluently, but you don't appear to interpret the words accurately, and you don't ask any questions, you just jump to conclusions, without bothering to make sure you are correct.. so how does it help you, if you make incorrect conclusions, and can't be bothered to make sure they are correct? then you arent interpreting correctly?
So you are walkign around with incorrect interpretations?
Furthermore you have not answered my previous questions:
It appears that you don't take responsibility for how you are responsible for -- in your mind -- reading [A] and deciding it is [B]. Why do you do that? Why do you read [A] and interpret it as [B]?
Now... considering your previous incorrect interpretations of our conversation.. it appears I need to make doubly sure your other interpretatiosn of otehr people's statements were correctly interpreted...
Afrikaans needs to be the primary language of any self-determination effort that we decide to bring.
Why?
Mainly because the attack on Afrikaans by the gubermunt is one of the reasons that most whites in South Africa support self-determination.
Where did you find this fact, or is it just an opinion? If an opinion, perhaps you may first want to make sure whether it is based on fact or fiction?
So, perhaps before we continue.. we may need to find out if htis is fact or fiction?
Also I do not want to spend my life fighting tooth and nail for an independent country only to have it reduced to a liberal cesspool in two generations because of exposure to the American and British media.
I don't quite see 2 + 2 = 4 in this argument.. sounds a little fishy to me... sorry to say.
The people who taught me conservativism, were not afrikaners, but Americans.
Afrikaans will create a buffer to limit the amount of influence that outside forces can have over us, our people and our decisions.
Huh???? I beg your pardon???
So because people are influenced by the media, you don't support encouraging strong critical thinking institutions (the foundation of a constitutional republic), you instead support encouraging censorship and treating them like children (big daddy guvmint)?
I do not want this for our future country and so we need to limit English. I'm sorry if this is offensive to you, but I call a spade a spade too.
Not offensive to me at all! Its virtually impossible to offend me; but you are welcome to try...
What did you not understand about:
If you are going to setup a boer constitutional republic.. I will fight to get in.. If you are going to setup an afrikaner taliban autocracy.. you are welcome to it..
So what is it to be????
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